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Solar 3.0 failed warlocks. (a 4.7k word essay about Support-lock) (tl;dr included)

Edit: Solar warlocks are objectively really really good in both PvE, and PvP but a lot of what I'm here writing about is the clunky gameplay of the class as a result of it's design; not it's balancing. I'd edit the title if I could, sorry.


I've spent two or three months working on this essay on and off. Solar warlock has always been my favorite class, and I think while the reaction to it was justified, the problem is ultimately misunderstood. I hope this can clear things up.

This Essay was written, and is meant to be read in Google Docs. So I'd much rather you read it there because it's much prettier

Below is a list of all 3 Warlock trees pre-Season 17, and how each ability was changed. Just so we can be on the same page

Before Solar 3.0

Attunement of Sky

Celestial Fire Winged Sun Heat Rises Icarus Dash
Send out a spiral of three explosive Solar energy blasts. Fire weapons, send Celestial Fire, and throw grenades while gliding. Airborne final blows extend the effects of Heat Rises and grant melee energy. Hold [Grenade] to consume your grenade energy to extend Glide time and improve in-air accuracy. Activate while midair to dodge.
Celestial Fire stayed exactly the same. Now it’s a melee option. It also scorches enemies dealing damage over a short time. This was combined with Heat Rises. Everything about this is completely unchanged on a base level. Now consuming your grenade heals both you, and your teammates in a small radius. This is also completely untouched on a base level. But in addition to its former properties, it also gives you (slightly worse) unrelenting when you kill enemies in the air using either your weapons or your super. Instead of triggering health regen like unrelenting, you get a single stack of cure.

Attunement of Grace

Divine Protection Guiding Flame Benevolent Dawn Well of Radiance
Hold to convert your grenade into a Blessing that heals ally targets and drops overshields that you and your allies can pick up. Activate Divine Protection while Gliding to hover in mid-air. Strike an enemy with this melee ability to inflict burn damage and empower yourself and nearby allies. Healing or empowering your allies regenerates your grenade, melee and Rift energy. Thrust your Daybreak sword into the ground. The sword continuously projects a powerful aura that heals and empowers nearby allies. Replaces Daybreak as subclass Super.
This is gone almost completely. It’s been replaced by a grenade ability that exclusively heals. It doesn’t grant overshields, just one stack of cure, and one stack of restoration which (usually) won’t heal you to full if you’ve taken a lot of damage. The trajectory and everything was also changed completely to be significantly more forgiving, so it takes a minute to get accustomed to. This was also slightly added to Heat Rises, because you can consume your grenade of choice to create a healing burst. This was replaced by a fragment called ‘Ember of Torches.’ The damage boost from it (radiant) is the same. 25% pve, 10% pvp. However, the radius was changed from ~24m, to 8m*.* So for specific numbers, this would give half of all your ability energy back over the course of about 6 seconds, regardless of your recovery, discipline, or strength stat. Now, the duration is the same but instead of giving you half your energy back, it doubles the speed at which your abilities recharge. For example: the base cooldown of the healing grenade is 88s. Every second, you’re getting about ~1.14% of the charge. With Ember of Benevolence, you’re boosted up to ~2.3% every second, for 6 seconds. So assuming that you have it up constantly, you can get your grenade back in half the time However, the original perk would have granted you about 7.3% every second for 6 seconds instead which is about 3 times better. So this effectively got a 300% nerf. This stayed completely the same, except it no longer gives overshields to the people standing in it, and it has much more health. The over shield granted an extra +70 health bringing everyone up to about 255-270 health depending on their resilience. Guardians also received 40% reduced damage in pvp. Now there is no longer an overshield, and guardians inside get a 50% damage reduction in pvp to everything that isn’t a primary weapon. So in total, we’ve gone from what was approximately a 1.9x reduction (200 -> 378) to a 1.5x damage reduction (200 -> 300). This isn't terrible, but things like adaptive frame sniper rifles can now kill because there’s a ~78 hp difference.

Attunement of Flame

Igniting Touch Fated for the Flame Everlasting Fire Phoenix Dive
Strike an enemy with this melee ability to burn them and cause them to explode when killed. Daybreak projectiles seek targets as they travel and, upon impact, launch a streak of deadly flames. Killing an enemy with Daybreak increases its duration. Activate while midair to quickly descend and restore your health. When Daybreak is active, descent causes explosive damage.
This is pretty much how scorch and ignite work. The difference being that the ignition/explosion was triggered when the enemy was killed while burning; regardless of how they were killed or how much they were burning (i.e. Ticcuu’s). Okay so this is weird, because it was split into two things. The tracking part was turned into a fragment called ‘Ember of Beams.’ Additionally, Daybreak now intrinsically has ‘a streak of deadly flames.’ (It’s equivalent to a wave frame grenade launcher). Okay to be fair, it probably would have been a little broken, but I still miss it. ;~; This is now a class ability, which means that Skylock players finally have a class ability. It also heals your teammates, albeit in a pretty small radius. When you use it while in Daybreak, you deal a small amount of damage and inflict burn (notice how I didn’t say scorch). The damage it does is pitiful, but it will scorch 40 stacks if Heat Rises is active. While you're in daybreak, this is increased by 50% for a total of 60 stacks; which still isn’t as much damage as I’d like it to be, which is to say that it’s practically nothing. Also, Daybreak doesn’t affect the cooldown of Phoenix Dive at all. So you can only really use it once per Daybreak.

After Solar 3.0


Heat Rises Icarus Dash Touch of Flame
Fragment Slots: (2) Fragment Slots: (2) Fragment Slots: (2)
You can fire weapons, melee and throw grenades while gliding. [Grenade]: Hold to activate Heat Rises, consuming your grenade and releasing a burst of healing energy around you. Consuming a healing grenade increases the strength of the burst. Final blows while airborne increase the duration of Heat Rises and grant melee energy [air movement key]: Dodge quickly while airborne. While Heat Rises is active, you have an additional dodge. While airborne, rapidly defeating targets with your weapon or super grants Cure to you. Your Healing, Solar, Firebolt, and Fusion Grenades have enhanced functionality. Healing Grenade: Improves the strength of cure and restoration effects applied. Solar Grenade: Increases linger duration. Periodically emits blobs of lava around it’s perimeter Firebolt Grenade: increases target search radius and maximum target count. Fusion Grenade: Explodes twice.

Class Abilities

Healing Rift Empowering Rift Phoenix Dive
Conjure a well of power that continuously heals those inside it. Conjure a well of power that increases weapon damage for those inside it. Dive to the ground to create a burst of Solar Light that cures nearby allies. While Heat Rises is active, you gain restoration while diving and scorch targets upon landing.
Base Cooldown: 1:22 Base Cooldown: 1:22 Base Cooldown: 1:22


Celestial Fire Incinerator Snap
Send out a Spiral of three explosive Solar energy blasts, scorching targets with each hit. Snap your fingers to create a fan of burning sparks that explode and scorch targets.
Base Cooldown: 1:40 Base Cooldown: 1:30

Grenades (available to everyone)

Tripmine Grenade An explosive grenade that sticks to surfaces and detonates when targets pass through its laser trigger, dealing damage and moderately scorching them. Base Cooldown: 1:31
Thermite Grenade A grenade that sends forth a burning line of fire, dealing damage and scorching targets in its path. Base Cooldown: 1:45
Incendiary Grenade A grenade that explodes in a fiery burst and heavily scorches nearby targets Base Cooldown: 2:01
Solar Grenade A grenade that creates a flare of solar light that continuously damages and scorches targets trapped inside Base Cooldown: 2:01
Swarm Grenade A grenade that detonates on impact, releasing multiple drones that seek nearby targets. Each drone slightly scorches affected targets. Base Cooldown: 1:31
Fusion Grenade An explosive grenade that attaches to targets, and moderately scorching them on detonation. Base Cooldown: 1:13
Firebolt Grenade A grenade that unleashes bolts of damaging Solar Light at nearby targets and slightly scorches them. Base Cooldown: 1:04
Healing Grenade A grenade that cures allies on impact and creates an Orb of benevolent Solar Light, granting restoration to allies when picked up. Base Cooldown: 1:22

Fragments (available to everyone)

Ember of Singeing Your class ability recharges faster when you scorch targets.
Ember of Benevolence Applying restoration, cure, or radiant to allies grants increased grenade, melee, and class ability regeneration for a short duration. -10 Discipline
Ember of Beams Your super projectiles have stronger target acquisition. +10 Intellect
Ember of Empyrean Solar weapon or ability final blows extend the duration of restoration and radiant effects applied to you. -10 Resilience
Ember of Combustion Final blows with your Solar Super cause targets to ignite. +10 Strength
Ember of Torches Powered melee attacks against combatants make you and nearby allies radiant.
Ember of Searing Defeating scorched targets grants melee energy. +10 Recovery
Ember of Char Your Solar ignitions spread scorch to affected targets. +10 Discipline
Ember of Tempering Solar weapon final blows grant you and your allies increased recovery for a short duration. Stacks 3 times While Ember of Tempering is active, your weapons have increased airborne effectiveness. -10 Recovery
Ember of Blistering Defeating targets with Solar ignitions grants you grenade energy.
Ember of Solace Radiant and restoration effects applied to you have increased duration.
Ember of Eruption Your Solar ignitions have an increased area of effect. +10 Strength
Ember of Ashes You apply more scorch stacks to targets.
Ember of Wonder Rapidly defeating multiple targets with Solar ignitions generates an Orb of Power. +10 Resilience

The Reason I Wrote This

Before Solar 3.0 and Season 17 came out, I talked about Void 3.0 and I had a lot to say. I primarily just wanted to vent, because I was really anxious about what would happen to my favorite class. A major source of my anxiety was the diversity and incompatibility of the three trees; Attunement of Sky, Grace and Flame. I think my anxiety was justified, because Solar Warlocks are suffering an identity crisis for the same reason.
Attunement of Grace was dissected and repackaged into fragments that anyone could use, regardless of their class. I don't have an issue with this conceptually. Every class had supportive pieces before, and so there's no harm in giving everyone the tools they need to be even more supportive because this is a game about teamwork after all, and I’m not going to complain about free healing or free damage buffs. However, in order for the fragments to be balanced, they had to be nerfed.

If this whole issue were as simple as, 'give Warlocks stronger healing' or 'give Warlocks more supportive options' then I wouldn't have written this, and you wouldn't be here reading it. Because on paper, Warlocks already have both the most, and the best supportive options. After all, Touch of Flame makes the healing grenade the strongest on Warlocks; and the same is true for Heat Rises. The rift abilities are constant sources of either healing, or damage. Not to mention, Well of Radiance is still incredibly strong.
But as much as I hate to say this, the problem is Skylock.

(sort of\***)*

More accurately, the problem is an incompatibility between the required playstyles for both Skylock, and Supportlock. The best example of this is Touch of Flame; and to be honest,

I hate Touch of Flame

Touch of Flame is an aspect that we saw last season with Chaos Accelerant, and with Stasis Hunters in Beyond Light with Touch of Winter. Because Chaos Accelerant is the closest equivalent to Touch of Flame, I want to compare the two because it’s the best way to explain why Touch of Flame is as bad as it is.

Touch of Flame Chaos Accelerant
Fragment Slots: (2) Fragment Slots: (1)
Your Healing, Solar, Firebolt, and Fusion Grenades have enhanced functionality. Healing Grenade: Improves the strength of cure and restoration effects applied. Solar Grenade: Increases linger duration. Periodically emits blobs of lava around it’s perimeter Firebolt Grenade: increases target search radius and maximum target count. Fusion Grenade: Explodes twice. [Grenade Button]: Hold to overcharge your grenade, making it deadlier and more effective. Vortex Grenade: Increases the size and linger duration of the vortex. Axion Bolt: Creates an additional seeker. Scatter Grenade: Has submunitions track to nearby targets. Magnetic Grenade: Releases a short-range Void Blast.

Without the context of the classes that these two aspects are from, Touch of Flame would seem objectively better. You don’t need to charge it up, you get an extra fragment slot, and the effects to the grenades allow for more damage. But Chaos Accelerant is the better aspect, because it was designed with, not for the class.

I spoke about Void 3.0 before, but as a really short recap it’s worth talking about the other two Warlock aspects from Void 3.0.

Child of the Old Gods Feed the Void
Fragment Slots: (2) Fragment Slots: (2)
Cast your rift to create a Void Soul. When you damage a target with a weapon, your Void soul flies to them and drains them, doing damage and weakening them, When a target is being drained, you are granted grenade and melee energy (if running healing rift) or health (if running empowering rift). Defeating a target who is being drained by your Void Soul grants class ability energy. Defeat a target with a Void ability to activate Devour. While Devour is active, final blows restore health and extend Devour.

For whatever reason, Bungie doesn't tell you this, but while Devour is active, you get grenade energy back for each kill you get in addition to the health and timer extension. This means that when you pair Feed the Void with Chaos accelerant, you have powerful grenades that give you Devour on kills. As you continue to get kills, you get your grenade back again. Child of the Old Gods also gives you grenade energy by siphoning enemy health. Regardless of how you build things, Chaos Accelerant will fit in perfectly. There’s an implicit synergy that exists between each aspect in a way that makes build crafting much more diverse.
Then there’s Touch of Flame. Solar Warlock doesn’t have Devour, or a Devour equivalent; which is to say that they can’t generate grenade energy in a meaningful way. There isn’t a flow, or a cycle to how you use your grenade on Solar. Once you’ve used it, you’re at the mercy of your cooldown, or external factors like exotics.
(I’m fully aware that there are two fragments that generate grenade energy, but neither of them are impactful enough to compete with Devour in a way that matters\***)*
Additionally, its sister aspects, Heat Rises and Icarus Dash, both have explicit synergies between one another. For example, activating Heat Rises will give Icarus Dash a second charge. That said, Touch of Flame has an explicit synergy with Heat Rises which makes the healing from Heat Rises much stronger if you’re using an enhanced healing grenade. The problem is that while that synergy exists explicitly, it doesn’t exist implicitly. Heat Rises and Icarus Dash go together implicitly because they’re both about being in the air. They both encourage you, if not require you, to play in the air. Touch of Flame replacing Icarus Dash just makes things feel awkward, because Heat Rises practically relies on Icarus Dash to feel whole.
With all of that said, Touch of Flame is still incredibly strong. It’s essential to almost every Solar Warlock build. I’m not complaining that Touch of Flame is bad in endgame content. I’m complaining because I think it was poorly designed. It’s an attempt to condense both Attunement of Flame, and Attunement of grace together into a single aspect that doesn’t fit in with the other two aspects. Besides, almost all of Touch of Flame’s strength relies on two exotic armor pieces; namely, Starfire Protocol and Sunbracers.
But what frustrates me the most is that Touch of Flame never even needed to exist. There was never anything in the old Solar trees that improved or affected grenades at all outside of Divine Protection on Attunement of Grace which, if you remember, turned your grenades into healing grenades. But now that healing grenades exist as their own grenade type, I have to ask, why was Touch of Flame implemented at all?

The Issue of Distance

(I could write so much about Skylock, but for now I’ll try and keep things as brief as I can. All I ask is that you trust what I have to say, because I've been playing with it almost exclusively since the beta.\***)*

Skylock isn’t a class about speed; it's a class about movement. Movement is about going from point A to point B; speed is about doing that as fast as possible. Skylock is one of the fastest classes in the game, but that’s almost entirely the byproduct of Icarus Dash canceling. It was never intentional. Heat Rises was designed to get you in position, and to keep you in that position.
Only half of the abilities actually support that kind of play style, which you're forced to use because two of the three aspects are designed for Skylock.
The healing and empowering rifts aren't just exclusively grounded abilities, but they're also completely stationary. And as much as I love pretending to be Colonel Mustang, the Incinerator Snap melee feels awkward and clunky at best. Its range isn't significant enough to let you actually be far away from anyone, and if anything, it's spread heavily encourages you to be right in front of your target(s) to get the most out of it. Not to mention the two super options, one of which being the most mobile super in the game, and the other being Well of Radiance.
At the very least, you can use any grenade that you want. But if you plan on healing anyone with Heat Rises, you need to be right next to them. I don't know if I can express just how small the radius is on that healing burst.
This pattern isn't exclusive to the class abilities either, it also exists with the fragments.

For perspective, the radar in game has a radius of 25m, meaning that if you can see your teammates as dots on the radar, they’re within 25m. It goes without saying, but the radar doesn’t have the best range at base, and things like the healing from Heat Rises, and the damage buff from Ember of Torches are less than half of that.
All of this results in binary class builds. If you're in the air, you use Phoenix Dive, Daybreak, Celestial Fire, Heat Rises, Icarus Dash and whatever grenade you want. If you want to play support, or anything remotely grounded, then you use either rift, Incinerator Snap, Well of Radiance, and Touch of Flame. There isn't any room for 'mixing-and-matching' abilities. If you plan on being in the air, then you're limited to roughly half of the class. There isn’t a way to play Supportlock and Skylock at the same time in a way that feels good. Believe me, I've tried. No matter what, you'll be throttled by the range requirements of the abilities and the fragments.
Dawnblade builds exist on a binary, not a spectrum.

Where we go from here

Truthfully, I don’t know.
Normally this would be the part where I propose some grand solution to all of this, but as I said, I don’t know what to do or where to go from here. I don’t make games, I never have. I don’t program, and I’m not going to pretend like I can. I’m not writing this because I think that I can do better than Bungie because I can’t. I’m here because this is an issue that I’m passionate about, and I want to contribute my perspective. But it's not fair of me to complain about a problem, and suggestions to fix it without presenting any of my own.
So here are a few ideas. Some of them are my own, and some of them are ones that I’ve seen or heard elsewhere.

A Fourth Aspect

One of the most popular suggestions that I've seen is the introduction of a fourth aspect. It's a popular idea for a reason. Right now there's 3 combinations of aspects that you can have, but a fourth aspect would double the number of potential combinations to 6. Instead of having to use Icarus Dash or Heat Rises alongside Touch of Flame, a fourth aspect would let you play entirely grounded without any waste. A fourth aspect would also present the opportunity to bring back some of the missing pieces from the old subclass trees. Benevolent Dawn, or something similar would be great.
But a fourth aspect won't entirely fix the problem. On paper, you would have many more opportunities to craft your builds, but in practice you'll continue to be limited by the incompatibility between Skylock and anything else. Heat Rises and Icarus Dash are inseparable without making something that feels clunky and awkward. And even if this hypothetical fourth aspect worked well with Icarus Dash or Heat Rises, the distance requirements from the fragments would still throttle any potential builds.

Combining Heat Rises with Icarus Dash

I hear people say that Heat Rises and Icarus Dash should be combined into one aspect a lot. The benefits of this would be similar, and arguably better, then making parts of Heat Rises intrinsic. As a diehard Skylock player, I would absolutely love this but that’s because there’s no way that it would be balanced.
Bungie would have to make a third aspect if this were to happen, and I would personally prefer to just have 4 because that would allow for more diversity. But even if Bungie did make another aspect, and this was somehow balanced in both PvE and PvP, that new aspect would have to address the shortcomings of Skylock, and fragments like Ember of Torches.

Shooting in the Air

Heat Rises does a lot to say the least. Other than its titular buff, it can heal you, generate melee energy and let you shoot in the air. But its main purpose is to let you shoot, melee, and throw grenades in the air. If that became intrinsic to the class, it would allow for more diversity in the aspects. Heat Rises would still be good because while you could hypothetically shoot in the air without it, Heat Rises gives you a +70 to airborne effectiveness along with buffs to glide in terms of movement.
But this is also a fairly tall ask. This would be the first, and only class to have an intrinsic ability which would set a precedent for other classes to have one, and lead to a lot of power creep. Additionally, it could pose challenges for PvP balancing. Solar Warlocks are already one of, if not the most popular classes in Crucible right now, and a change like this would only make that worse.

Ember of Torches

One of my biggest issues is that currently, there isn’t a way to make someone Radiant if you’re in the air. In fact, the only way to make anyone Radiant on Warlock, is by using Ember of Torches. But because the range is so small, it’s completely unusable when you’re in the air. Being able to hit someone with your melee, like Celestial Fire to make them Radiant would help a ton.
I don’t think there are too many downsides to this outside of the difficulty of implementing it. But because this is a fragment, other melees on both Hunter and Titan would be affected as well and that may require extra balancing and tuning. For example, the throwing hammer on Titan can be thrown and picked up repeatedly. If you could just throw it at the floor, or at a teammate to make either you, or yourself Radiant, then things would get a bit messy.

Ember of Benevolence

Ember of Benevolence doesn’t feel good to use. Other than the stat penalty of -10 Discipline, Ember of Benevolence doesn’t feel effective, or worth using. Before, it was super obvious when Benevolent Dawn was active, but that was a bit broken after all. I think that Ember of Benevolence should stack based on how many allies you support. I don’t know what this would look like exactly, but I imagine that if you made someone Radiant, then you would get a stack of Benevolence. After getting a stack, you could then heal another ally, and get a second stack which would further increase the effectiveness of the ability regeneration.
But similarly to Ember of Torches, this would be a change to a fragment; meaning that it would affect both Titans and Hunters as well. Warlocks still have the best ways to support their teammates, so they would likely benefit from this fragment more than the other two classes, which is perfectly fine. If anything, that’s how it should be.
The logistics of this also pose an issue. If you could support the same ally multiple times by juggling abilities, should you be allowed to get multiple stacks from them? If so, then you could just pocket someone to build up tons of momentum and ability energy.
You could do this before using Benevolent Dawn, but I’m willing to admit that Benevolent Dawn was a little bit overpowered.
Ideally, this change would encourage players to bounce between teammates, managing their resources among 5 people that all need to be healed, and buffed.


I know that this has been a lot, and if you’ve made it this far then I want to say ‘thank you.’ It genuinely means a lot to me.
I wrote all of this because this is something that I’m passionate about. I like this game a lot, and I like Solar Warlock a lot. There was a lot of misinformation on this topic on Reddit when the season first launched. I felt like a lot of it was emotionally charged, which is why it was misleading. I hope that all of this acts as a clear, and comprehensive explanation of the problem as a whole.


Solar warlock builds have been forced into a binary rather than a spectrum of player creativity and freedom that we had hoped for. This is because the playstyles for Attunement of Sky and Attunement of Grace are inherently opposed to one another. One requires you to be in the sky, far from your enemies and your teammates, while the other demands the exact opposite. For example, two of the three Aspects are directly from Attunement of Sky, which projects an expectation on the player to ‘fly around’ despite only half of the abilities actually supporting that type of playstyle. This dichotomy is further exacerbated by things like Ember of Torches, which require you to be within 6m of a teammate in order to make them radiant.
Edit: because I keep seeing this in the comments.
I'm not asking for buffs. I know that solar warlock is arguably the strongest class in the game. I don't care about that. The kit isn't cohesive. That's my problem with it, not that I think it's "underpowered" or that it "can't preform." Please just read the whole thing. Or at least the tl;dr.
submitted by AdorkableMia to DestinyTheGame [link] [comments]

A veteran player's perspective on the best and worst gameplay mechanics across all generations of AC and which ones are worth bringing into AC6 **TLDR AT THE TOP**

TLDR: I think a balance between the 3rd and 4th generation in terms of movement would be ideal. The way you selected weapons between your left and right sides was also a great way to open up a little bit more loadout variety and looked super cool too. Primal armor, which looks to be coming back based on the trailer, was a wonderful addition to the game that made combat and build crafting more interesting without being too restrictive. I didn't really care for the 5th gen and I think it's 3 damage type system was one of the biggest mistakes the franchise has ever seen, but I did really like the combat mode/scan mode mechanic, the scanning drones, and its iteration of the lock box. I think mashing all of these things together would work brilliantly to form a fast paced yet tactical AC game that would appeal to fans of each generation.
I'm what most people here would consider a veteran player. I've been playing since AC1 on the original PlayStation when I was 3 years old. I've played almost every title in the franchise, the only exceptions being Formula Front, Nexus, and Verdict Day. I spent most of my time with the 3rd and 4th generation, namely AC3, Silent Line, and For Answer, but I also put many hours into the first generation between the original and Master of Arena.
I'm super passionate about these games and the AC6 trailer has me more excited for a videogame than any other trailer ever has before. This is gonna be a long post, so prepare for a deep dive into the mechanics of a very complicated series and by all means, sound off in the comments with any thoughts or feedback you might have. I'm stoked to see this community so alive for a change and I'd love to hear what you guys have to say and engage with everyone!
When it comes to movement I generally prefer 3rd gen because of how much better it lends itself to various level designs and platforming sections. Players could navigate through tight spaces much better and more carefully place their AC in certain positions. The iconic, claustrophobic indoor levels that basically worked out to be mini-dungeons were near impossible to implement in 4th gen because of how fast the Nexts were and how much more floaty they felt on the ground. 3rd gen ACs stopped much quicker and made small adjustments to positioning much easier. They also put more emphasis on how players used their boost and managed their energy gauge to stay on the move.
Quick boosting, while controversial, is just plain fun and definitely has a permanent place in my heart for the franchise. It added that extra bit of spice that not only made players feel more powerful and gave the mechs a more technologically advanced quality, but also added an entirely new layer to the movement system as a whole. Timing a quick boost to properly dodge a powerful attack was really satisfying and giving every mech the ability to quick turn did a lot to bridge the gap between an AC with low turning speed and an AC with high turning speed.
With For Answer, as much as I loved it, the quickboosting definitely got a bit too spammy, especially in multiplayer. However, I think it could absolutely be reimplemented in a way that feels more deliberate and calculated. Even if quickboosting didn't use a ton of energy in AC6, not being able to boost along the ground indefinitely, like 4th gen, and actually having to manage your regular booster usage, like 3rd gen, would do wonders for bringing the spam down.
The 5th gen did a decent enough job bringing the overall tempo of the game back down by reducing the general availability of boost energy, but I don't think it was the best direction to move in as a whole. The regular boosting was very slow, which made quickboosting feel just as necessary as it did in 4th gen and the implementation of wall jumping was questionable. It was one of those things that seemed cool at first, but many of us quickly grew to dislike it after we realized it was now the only way to gain altitude. You could no longer use your boosters alone to take to the skies. This made being away from walls or cover to bounce off of extremely punishing and really hurt the players' freedom of movement that the franchise had been known for almost fifteen years by that point.
Strangely enough, I actually preferred the lock box and targeting mechanics of the 5th gen. It was a stark departure from the previous 4th gen where there was no lockbox at all. With those games the player could move around however they wanted and still accurately return fire as long as their enemy was somewhere on screen. Conversely, the revised lockbox system in 5th gen required plagers to aim much more carefully. This forced players to be more considerate of their positioning and maneuvers so that they could keep their shots lined up. It also helped balance out things like snipers by giving them a smaller lockbox. Many of you here probably remember how overpowered some permaflight sniper builds could be in 4 and For Answer.
At the end of the day, this whole lockbox system wasn't new to the franchise. It was previously used since the 1st game up until LR. However, I think 5th gen's implemention of it was the best.
The weapon select system was another huge improvement in 4th gen in my opinion. Being able to switch between your arm weapon or back weapons for each side of your AC individually was awesome. Having the option to run around with both back weapons locked and loaded was great and being able to use either of your back weapons with either of your arm weapons was also super useful. The whole system opened up a lot more build variety since you had more possible combinations for which weapons you could have selected at any given time.
Alright, now we're getting to the really meaty parts of the post.
The primal armor system was one of my favorite new additions 4th gen introduced to the game and it managed to achieve a number of things. It did a great job of differentiating solid shell weapons from energy weapons. Solid shell was far superior at stripping PA whereas energy would penetrate it without needing to wear it down so much. Plus, the whole mechanic of taking more damage while PA was low was an interesting way to apply pressure to the player or present them with an opportunity when they lowered the PA of their enemy. It also just makes more sense. Like I know it's a sci-fi game about giant mechs, but having an energy shield that absorbs most of the incoming damage is a lot more reasonable when you look at how much firepower ACs get hit with.
As for the damage types, I think 4th gen handles this the best as well. The 1st through 3rd gens handled it well enough, but it was a lot more binary back then without the additional variable that was primal armor. It was literally just two different damage types that each had a corresponding defense value on each AC. High solid shell defense meant an AC would take less damage from solid shell weapons and vice versa. That was it.
5th gen was more similar to the 1st through 3rd gens in how it handled this because there was no primal armor. However, there were two huge changes that had a very negative affect on the game in my opinion. First was the addition of a third damage type, chemical damage. This extra damage type was just enough to make building a well rounded weapon loadout feel exceptionally difficult with only four weapon slots to choose from and made keeping defense stats evenly distributed near impossible. The second change was the degree to which the defense stat affected the amount of damage the player took.
In previous games without primal armor, it was enough to make a difference without turning the player's AC into paper when put up against an opponent that specced into the damage type the player was weak against. In the 5th gen this was not the case at all. For example, if the player had low solid shell defenses, they would get obliterated by solid shell weapons. And if their opponent had high energy defenses but the player had equipped mostly energy weapons, they would do pitiful damage to their enemy. Between juggling a third damage type and the outrageously high effect defense stats had on the amount of damage players took, the outcome of a fight felt like it was determined more by the builds each player used than their skill level.
Because of how the extra damage type and weighting of the defense stats really hurt the player's ability to leverage their skills against their opponent, I think it should be avoided at all costs. As much myself and many other players disliked the movement changes that 5th gen brought with it, I truly believe this system is what was most responsible for the distaste much of the community had for the 5th gen games. ACV and VD were heavily focused on multiplayer at the cost of the campaign, but at the same time created a system where loadouts and builds had a greater impact on the outcome of a match than skill-level did. It's a prime example of what not to do.
This is gonna be a big section of the post because it's a very complicated topic and there are a lot of different ways Fromsoftware could approach it, so buckle up for a bit of a long read. It also left the playervase very divided because of how much it changed a core mechanic of the franchise that had been largely the same since the very beginning.
The scanning mode/combat mode mechanic introduced in ACV was one of the only things about 5th gen that I really loved. When the player first spawned into a battle they'd be in combat mode, which worked exactly like any other AC game. Nothing changed there except that player no longer had a radar. The whole function of the radar was rolled into scanning mode in a new way along with a slew of other features.
In scanning mode the player had the ability to gain information on opponents like never before at the cost of not being able to return fire. We're talking wallhacks, enemy loadouts, defense stats, ammo counts, remaining AP, the whole nineball. This was a LOT of great information to have that could help players make better decisions. ACs could also boost longer and recover energy quicker during scan mode. This feature made traversing larger parts of levels or maps much easier and faster without turning the combat into a crazy fever dream every single time because of how it was separated from combat mode. It did a fantastic job of adding to that "you're piloting a advanced war machine" feeling and it had some really positive effects on the gameplay as well.
Then there's the scanning drones themselves. These were a new part added to AC that influenced how the player used scanning mode and are what allowed them to gain all that juicy data. The scanning drones came in two different forms. Projectiles that players could stick to a surface like the side of a building or a mountain and hover units that stayed in place right above the player's AC. If the player fired a projectile unit they would now be able to get wallhacks and info on anyone nearby where it landed. If the player popped a hover unit they could gain that same info in a small area surrounding their AC. One was good for getting info from a distance and one was better for close combat because it provided awareness around the player's AC at all times. Different drones had different areas of affects and durations that came with tradeoffs to weight and ammo count. But the most important part is that players couldn't get any of this data from scanning mode without using the drones.
For those of you that prefer a regular radar, I was thinking perhaps this could be worked into the drone mechanic in some way. For example, if the player were to pop a drone and return to combat mode they would get a radar display in the top left for the drone's duration. Different drones could then provide higher radar refresh rates or emphasize combat mode radar performance/range in general over scanning mode area of affect or duration. It would create an interesting choice between going for more thorough information that tells the player more about their enemies or data that's significantly less detailed but can be utilized while still in combat.
Oooooooh boy, here we go. If there's ever been a hot button topic in the AC community that turns some people into elitists, it's this one. For the uninitiated, Human Plus, or H+ for short, was a hidden feature of the 1st and 2nd generations of AC that would unlock special abilities for the player. These includes things like drastically improved generator performance that equated to much longer and more frequent boosts, the ability operate fold-out back-mounted canon weapons without being totally stationary on bipedal builds, an enhanced radar that was always active regardless of whether or not the selected head part included a radar function, the ability to cast a projectile wave from a laser blade, and a few others.
H+ was acquired by going into 50,000 credits of debt and dying in a mission. Once the player did this, the game would then show brief cutscene in some sort of medical facility implying that you, the player, were being operated on. After that, the game would restart from the beginning with all debts wiped clean and all the parts the player had already purchased intact, but none of the mission progress. The player would have to repeat this process several times to gain all the H+ abilites, gaining a new one each time.
Op-Intensify, or Op-Infor short, was a rework of this mechanic that was introduced with AC3. After beating the game, the player would get a message from a n unknown sender asking them to defeat a newly added arena opponent. The sender would also supply them with a new optional part, Op-Intensify, to help make this task easier. Upon inspection of the part the player would find that no functions were listed. The secret was that they had to perform various other tasks to unlock each new ability that Op-I would add. Eventually, Op-I would provide all of the same benefits that H+ used to. The difference being you could unequip it instead of it being permantly linked to your save file like H+ was.
H+ was transferable through saves in the 1st and 2nd generations of the game and so was Op-I. That is until Nexus. Nexus dropped Op-I altogether and didn't allow any save transfers from Silent Line either. Op-I would then be unavailable through the end of the 3rd generation, which also includes Ninebreaker and Last Raven. The only way to play those games was with the default loadout restrictions. Then came 4th gen, which, by default, gave everyone the equivalent of H+/Op-I on enough methamphetamines to give an elephant a heart attack.
Either way, many players loved that Nexus through Last Raven didn't offer any sort of H+/Op-I features and took the stance that the people who used them in the past were "cheaters". Personally, I think there are merits to both playstyles. I've beaten every AC title that included H+/Op-I at least once without using it, but I still really enjoyed using them for fun and for the power fantasy. It was especially cool because so many of the poster ACs and enemy AI utilized it, so you'd see these other ACs running around showing off all sorts of abilities you didn't have yet. Finally unlocking that stuff felt super cool.
For multiplayer, I think Op-I is the perfect solution for both single player and multiplayer because the player was required to prove they could first beat the game without it before they could unlock it and it was a part the player could equip or unequip. Simply separate playlists between Op-I enabled and Op-I disabled. If you try to que into the Op-I disable playlist while you have it equipped the game doesn't let you. Plenty of other multiplayer games have executed similar item-exclusions no problem before so, in theory, it should be easy to implement.
Boom. Problem solved. For the campaign, everyone has to beat it without the Op-I buffs at least once so everyone gets that classic AC experience, but the people who want to mess around and have fun with it have that option too. For the multiplayer, people can choose which types of playlists they want to que and everyone's on level footing. Hell, people who want an extra challenge could even que into the Op-I playlist without equipped to really test their skills. It's a win-win.
Oooor they could go the 4th gen route and just give everything H+ behaviors by default lol. We'll have to wait and see i guess.
Wow! That was a lot. Probably the longest reddit post I've ever made tbh. I think maybe I like these games a little too much haha. But hey, I'm glad I could finally get more or less all of my thoughts on the series existing iterations and my hopes for the upcoming release all out in one organized post. I doubt any of you will read this whole thing, but if you did I hope you enjoyed the in-depth look at all of AC's different mechanics, how they've evolved over the years, and how they can improve in the future. And once again, please leave some comments! I wanna hear your thoughts. Do you agree with some of my takes? Do you think I'm absolutely crazy? Was there any mechanics you feel are super important that I totally missed? Let me know!
submitted by ArnoldSwarzepussy to armoredcore [link] [comments]

Anyone else think Unarmed (and melee kinda) is generally underwhelming in Fallout 4?

I know that in terms of actual build validity, unarmed (and melee) is very strong, especially with the right perks, and can easily carry you through the entire game if you want. (though the way it interacts with power armor seems a little funky) It can also definitely feel very satisfying at times, especially with some of those finishing moves. But I mainly am talking about in terms of actual ability, weapon, and build variety.
There is a whopping total of 5 unarmed base weapon types in the entire game, one of which is added via DLC, and only 2 of them are actually worth considering using at the end game, the power fist and deathclaw gauntlet. (maybe the Butcher's hook for AP shenanigans) There is only one unique unarmed weapon in the entire game, the Butcher's hook. (The furious power fist from Swan is technically just a guaranteed legendary, it's effect isn't even unique) And even still, I think the furious power fist with the puncturing modification is probably the objectively best unarmed weapon in the game regardless. Speaking of, not only is there an anemic weapon variety, but those weapons don't even have a decent variety of mods to compensate, with most having 1-2 options, the vast majority of which are just flat improvements. The deathclaw gauntlet has a single mod that just makes the weapon objectively better, and despite the power fist having 2 theoretically useful mods, I'm pretty sure everyone just goes puncturing anyways. Another thing to be considered is that, if you want to, you can get both an upgraded deathclaw gauntlet and the furious power fist at basically level 1, easily breaking the actual "progression", and essentially having you acquire the weapons that you will use for the entire game in less than an hour, leaving you with basically nothing to look forward to weapon-wise other than maybe lucking out on a legendary drop of one of the two aforementioned weapons. (Though good luck finding a better modifier than furious for the power fist that early)
Also there is a general lack of skills or synergy to build with or find. Unlike Fallout NV, where you had 4 learnable perks that all offered unique, special attacks, along with several "regular" perks, the only real perks that affect unarmed are the ones given by the Iron Fist tree and the Blitz perk, which funnily enough don't always play nice with each other. (Many of the buffs offered by the Iron Fist perk tree only affect power attacks, which you cannot preform in VATS, while the final paralyze attack, and obviously blitz, ONLY have an effect while in VATS) You could also argue the sneak perks synergize well, but not only are these not unique to unarmed, but if you don't go a sneaky build (like I didn't) then none of those are very relevant either. Rooted was also technically a melee focused perk, but usually you want to move around when doing melee combat, making it very finnicky to use.
It basically got so bad that I started just including melee into my build simply for some more variety over using the same 2 weapons (mostly the power fist) constantly, only to find that melee also has a pretty limited and binary choice of weapons and modding potential, with most weapons only having 1 or 2 mods, most of which are flat upgrades as well. (And also overlaps a lot with unarmed anyway: Both the unarmed and melee perk trees focus on mostly disarming or crippling opponents) I think it's genuinely not an exaggeration to say that there is effectively more automatic weapon options in the game than unarmed and melee combined, especially when you consider what is "endgame" tier for each weapon type. (And more mods for the combat rifle alone than any other melee weapon put together) And even still, at the very end game, my entire arsenal basically consisted of 4 weapons (all legendary in some way): The stunning super sledge, large deathclaw gauntlet, puncturing power fist, and extended ripper, 2 of which were totally unusable while in power armor. The only real modification choice I had was to give the ripper a disarm chance, or just give it more damage/bleed. A far cry from basically being able to turn the plasma rifle alone into a pistol, SMG, assault rifle, sniper rifle, flamethrower, or borderline shotgun depending on what you wanted. (and the choice for the ripper was still pretty obvious)
I just feel like the overall weapon, modding, and skill/perk options for not only unarmed, but melee in general was quite lacking compared to ranged weapons in general in this game, especially when compared to it's predecessors, even if they are still technically useful and still quite satisfying to use at times. Unless you really go out of your way to do "goofy" builds or get a really lucky legendary drop, it just seems like the end game for unarmed/melee will look fairly similar in any given playthrough, giving it little replayability compared to other weapon types. Anyone else agree, or do you see something that I may be missing?
submitted by Bob_Calistan to Fallout [link] [comments]

GM's Guide to Cyberpunk: RED (3/15): COMBAT!

GM's Guide to Cyberpunk: RED (3/15): COMBAT!
Started a GM's guide for the new players and GMs in the awesome server I'm in. This is a lot of stuff to read and only scratches the surface of GMing or understanding (at least my interpretation) of the Time of the Red. This is mostly geared towards newer people getting into Cyberpunk RED and looking for Campaign advice over One-shots or LC play. Enjoy, chooms!

Combat is an integral part of Cyberpunk RED and a hot talking point among many circles. We’re going to be splitting this chapter into two halves. The first half is going to be discussing the gameplay mechanics side of combat from statblocks, tips and tricks, to designing encounters and battlemaps. The second half of this chapter will be discussing the narrative weight of combat.

Combat and Plot

Sometimes, it happens. The plan went wrong, the intel was bad, someone messed up a roll, or Biotechnica has finally come to deal judgment in the aftermath of that big heist. Whatever it is, you've rolled initiative and are ready for combat. Before we dive into the mechanical things, we need to cover the why you're doing combat.
Action reveals what our characters are really made of. In Cyberpunk RED, combat is not about what happens; but how the characters are reacting and making choices to what’s happening. Your goal as the Game Master isn't to try your hardest to murder your players (unless you plan to never see them again), but to challenge them. Put them in situations where they have to decide how to strategize, use their abilities, and overcome the encounter. That being said, combat should never be the end goal for your session prep unless there is some meaning to it - like finally hunting down that slippery fixer who sold your crew out or finally putting that pesky Solo in the dirt where they belong. Those examples, as climaxes to the story, are satisfying on so many levels to the players. If your session consists of "go here, kill some things, leave" your players won't feel the satisfaction of meaningfully progressing their story or goals because the combat was inconsequential. Sure, I know I'm being very general about it for the sake of getting you to the combat stuff but I wanted to leave you with: combat isn't the end goal, it's the means to an end. It's to drive the plot along, not finish it.

Prepared or not to be Prepared

Preparing combat encounters is no easy feat. Unlike Dungeons & Dragons and similar games, combat can be fast and deadly. Fatigue can set in from players who find themselves of what I call “Shoot, you hit”. This is a catch-all for every combat situation where PCs and NPCs stand in a room and just keep shooting and swinging at each other until someone drops dead or gives up. This is awful and no matter how many times you hear a "yeah that was fun" around the table, I assure you, it probably wasn't. Okay, I'm being nihilistic and a jerk for a moment but that's the point, I want to help you make all of your combat memorable, not just the big set pieces.
Unlike D&D, prepared encounters have a nasty habit of not going as planned at all. I remember in my early days of being a GM, I set up a cool encounter inspired by Dimension20's Unsleeping City where the PCs were in a room with several enemies, and every turn the water would rise and the players had to climb up on cover and platforms to effectively fight. Except, the whole thing ended before the fight even began with a stealth roll and a rocket launcher.
Combat in Cyberpunk RED is like murphy's law: if something can go wrong, it probably will. Players can get crafty, lucky, or all sorts of crazy that could uproot your encounter just like they could in any other Tabletop Game. Does this mean all your encounters should be random? Unplanned? Sure, that can work, but there's no meaning in a random encounter other than chewing up time. My personal belief is that every combat advances the story in some meaningful way; maybe that fight with the Bozos went well but next week in the middle of your heist, a clown car pulls around the corner. They seem to be going by till the car stops, backs up, and the Bozos realize you're the crew that took down their guys a week ago. Oh no!
When your prep your encounters and maps, prep situations. Give your players a wide map, a floorplan, or a rough theater-of-the-mind estimate of the layout, and give them the freedom to do whatever they want. If they manage to get through the whole thing without interacting a single enemy, don't punish them by forcing them into combat. Reward them!
Don't prep a combat encounter with the expectation that there will be a fight. Prepare a room, think of its possibilities, what could happen, and go from there. Unless the fight is important to the plot, don't overthink it. If the fight is very important to the plot, use my below tips.

Difficulty =/= Inflation

The biggest mistake I see GMs make is pumping numbers to increase difficulty. That's a surefire way for a lot of things to go wrong really fast. A big complaint I've seen is that the Players are "bullet sponges" and enemies can't hit squat. I've seen people throw hardened mooks at Hardened PCs and wonder why they're getting laid out on the concrete.
You need to play your enemies smarter, not harder. A sniper will get at optimal range, using the right cyberware and taking their time for a +1. Enemies will use their Conceal/Reveal to lay traps as they retreat from a group of Players who are easily more equipped and skilled than they are. Enemies will try to use their Stealth skills to move around Players and ambush them in the heat of combat.
Likewise, if your players are a Hardened Crew that is pretty legendary, of course, a simple Boosterganger won't do squat.

Quick and Expendable NPCs

If you’re wondering how you make meaningful enemies with minimal prep, such as the Players suddenly attacking an NPC Fixer and his crew or some random boosters, you need some NPCs and fast! You can see this advice bounced around the entire community about assigning Combat Numbers to NPCs. A Combat Number is the base STAT + Skill for an NPC without having to write down the entire STAT and Skill card. This way you can just roll a 1d10 + Combat Number without going down, finding the skill on the chart, then looking up at the STAT and adding them together, then rolling.
This is great for random obstacles or encounters because you won’t get sad when the Players waste that Solo you spent all night preparing (trust me). The only pitfall of Quick and Expendable NPCs is that they aren’t interesting. They’re just a card of numbers with some interesting weapons and armor. Yes, the GM can make these NPCs fun and unique, but you lose a bit of the special magic. Some NPCs have specializations and might not have a flat CN 14 to all skills. Getting to know your enemies adds a lot more meaning. You play them less as disposable mooks and more like real, intelligent people. Seriously, explore the skill descriptions and start making enemies that specialize in certain "non-combat" skills and you'll get some seriously interesting ideas that could turn a combat completely around.
When giving your NPC a skill base (STAT+SKILL) I use these guidelines:
+4 completely untrained (untrained civilian)
+6 very basic training (civilians with basic weapons/self-defense instruction)
+8 amateusome training (rent a cop, fresh boosterganger), Role Rank 1 (solo, Lawman, etc)
+10 trained (NCPD beat cop, veteran boosterganger), Role Rank 1-2
+12 skilled/extensive training (Veterans, elite boosters, new Solos), Role Ranks 2-3
+14 skilled and hardened (A typical Solo, professional, Roles Rank 4-5)
+16 Elite (An elite Solo, Militech Special Forces, Arasaka Ninja, Role Ranks 6-7)
+18 World class (A legendary Solo, Elite Mercenary, Role Rank 8+)
I prefer to make my own NPCs from scratch in a Foundry VTT, where I create a large pool of enemies to draw from and just drag into an encounter as needed. This gives me flexibility in encounters where I know what my enemies have including Cyberware that may enhance their abilities and I won't be sad when my players waste that Solo I spent all night preparing.
Quick & Easy enemies are a great way to get the ball rolling for one shots if you're in an LC or at a convention. All you need is a piece of paper, some HP and SP, and a Combat Number.

Scaling Enemies

As the Players get better, strong, and more well-equipped, adjust the world to reflect that. A Boosterganger from the Mooks and Grunts won’t do squat against a Rank 8 Solo who has spent thousands of eddies on equipment and weapons. Consider using RTalsorians Hardened Enemies but don’t just raise Skills and Stats. Give enemies better gear, give them tactics, lay traps and have them plan.
My biggest warning is don’t try to inflate enemy's STATS and Skills to try and match players. While sometimes this works effectively, if every Boosterganger suddenly has military-level skills, the Players will suspect something is up and feel like their progression is getting punished. There will always be little fish and big fish, and your players will always be somewhere in between regardless of their level and status. If you find your enemies aren’t putting a dent in your players, you aren’t challenging them enough. All enemies won't be fighting the same either. Boostergangers will stand out in the open and think they're crack marksmen trying to beat a DV20 with their Very Heavy Pistols because their 2 INT tells them so. A Militech Solo with an INT 7 knows engaging a crew of 4 borgs won't go well if he fights a pitched battle, so he's going to lay traps, use cover, and stealth. Try to play your enemies differently.
Also, don't forget that your enemies are people. Death is sort of scary when you think about it too hard, so having every enemy fight to the death just becomes stale and unrealistic. Have them run away, or better yet, call in reinforcements so they can retreat. They'll use Smoke and Suppressive Fire to cover their retreat.

Making it Graphic

Your enemies are living, breathing people and you need to remind the Players of that. The people they’re gunning down might have partners, children, friends, and extended family. When you shoot them, you don’t just “hit and roll dice”, your bullet slams through their thigh in gouts of blood! Yet (because the HP is now 20/30) they go “Just warmin’ up over here!” before moving onto the next player. You can use a random combat descriptor like the one I made like this to add more depth in combat. By narrating combat in a way that isn’t just “roll, you hit, roll damage” it keeps players engage, makes them feel like what they’re doing is real rather than shaving numbers off an enemy’s health bar.

Using Humanity Loss Effectively

Again, your players aren’t just wasting statblocks called Boosterganger, they’re living people. Humanity Loss doesn’t just chip away from Cyberware but from traumatic experiences. Use this sparingly depending on the style of game you’re running such as a dark, slow-burn procedural or a gritty gutterpunk campaign. These are people you're killing, people with friends and family. People with dreams and motivations. They're laying there bleeding out choking on their own blood. They're crying, clutching the hand-drawn photo their child made them.

Using Maps

If you’re a theater of the mind person, maps are more like just drawing squares on a piece of paper just to keep things organized or track the positions of players and NPCs. You don’t need to get fancy on maps and whatnot, you can easily find battlemaps all over the internet but here’s the thing: not many battle maps are optimized for Cyberpunk combat. Battlemaps serve two purposes as a visual aid and as something to look at. Visual aids in combat are things like cover, room depth, or width. Let’s look at this map example:

Map A
We have a good variety of symmetrical combat. When making maps, I usually try to offer two lanes of movement at the minimum. Zone A is called No Man’s Land, it’s a long distance of terrain that favors ranged weapons. There’s sparse cover like C but once that cover is gone, you’re caught out with your pants down.
Zone B are flanking routes that can have characters moving from cover-to-cover closing distance on each other.
Zone C allows for non-linear movement. Sure, if all the players advanced up Zones A and B, the enemies can move freely around Zones C and surround the players or come up behind them. I call this the merry-go-round effect.
What’s not featured on here are things like elevation which could be balconies, rooftops, or windows. In open areas, cover can feature dumpsters, cars, and bus stops. Having these zones and variety of cover allows for players to strategize how best to use their weapons or skills or for enemies to use the terrain to their advantage if all the players with melee weapons decide to rush Zone A.
If you make your own map, I highly recommend studying how maps are made for shooters.

Map B
Even on this second map in the alleyway, we have plenty of options for Players and enemies alike to take cover. Let's take verticality into account. A player with a grapple gun can work their way onto the rooftops or be positioned there from the start, having line of sight on enemies, and thus rendering their cover useless - and the enemies can do the same to the Players. Here we have things like a stack of crushed cardboard which can provide some, but the meager cover, the dumpsters, the barrels on the left side, the jersey barriers, etc. In the center we have the familiar "no man's land" but still have safe flanking routes for the crafty players. Alternately, either side can just retreat and leave the combat by going through either side of the alley, top or bottom.
TL;DR: don't make your encounters linear and featureless. Even if you're running just theater of the mind, give your players some kind of cover or zone that allows them to use their skills, abilities, and weapons effectively.

Cover and Line of Sight

Cover in Cyberpunk RED is binary: you're either in it, or you're not. So what do you do? Here we have a Security Guard trying to get Viggo who's currently hiding behind the striped Jersey Barriers on the left side. The Security Guard cannot damage Viggo directly, but instead can attack the cover and drop it to zero. However, this leaves the Security Guard in a bad position since he doesn't have cover and when his actions are done, Viggo can just shoot him from safety. The Security Guard chooses to go around the cover and engage Viggo in close quarters to level the playing field.

Map C
Visualizing Cover
When a piece of cover is reduced to 0HP, it doesn't just explode and disintergrate unless destroyed by an explosive. Let's use a wooden table for example. Think of your favorite action movies when the hero is hiding behind the table and you see holes being punched all around them until there's nowhere left but spot the hero is hiding behind. That cover is reduced to 0 HP because the next shot will hit them so they can either leave the cover or pray the enemy misses that next shot. If someone is using the corner of a concrete wall, the 0 HP is the cover being shaved down to the point that the legs or maybe the arms or shoulder are showing.

Map D
Here we have a good example of line of sight and cover. Here's the scene: Players A and B are trying to kill NPC M. Player A is on the same ground level as M - who is currently hiding behind a turned-over table. Player A does not have line of sight of M unless they hold an action and wait for M to leave cover so they can shoot. Alternatively, A can shoot through the table until they hit M by dropping the table to 0 HP.
Player B, because of their positioning, and the fact that they are 4 meters taller than A and M, has a clear line of sight on M despite M hiding behind the table - because M is visible to B.
Goon M has clear line of sight on Player A because she is standing in the open, but doesn't have clear line of sight on Player B because they're both behind cover and 4 meters high.
Naturally, Player A can double back and go around the stack of bookcases and come out from behind NPC M. NPC M could also avoid Player B and go around the book cases, cutting player B out of the combat and focusing solely on Player A.
And people say there's no tactical options in Cyberpunk RED, ha!

Using Terrain

Tip #1: You have to make your combat dynamic. If everyone's in a flat, featureless room, the combat will just resolve to the age-old "you shoot, you hit/miss" until someone dies or gives up. The two easiest ways to add something dynamic to your combat encounter is Cover and Height. I think what everyone gets wrong about Cyberpunk RED is that there are no modifiers for positioning and combat. That's not true. Let's go back to Map D for a second. Player B is 14 meters away from NPC M (10 meters, +4m in height), so his Assault Rifle has to beat a DV15. NPC M's shotgun has to beat a DV20 to hit Player B. I don't need a written +1 for height differences in the Combat Modifier chart like in Cyberpunk 2020, the rules and the DV charts in RED, give me that by putting Player B in an advantageous position.
Tip #2: Hazards and interactable objects, whether it's theater of the mind or using battlemaps, are an easy way to add spice to an encounter. Whether it's a chandelier that could drop if an Aimed Shot is made, or it's a pool of oil/Choo2 that can be ignited with a well-thrown incendiary grenade. Try to think of things in the environment that can change the situation. Maybe an explosion from the PC's grenade brings down the roof of this old crumbling Hot Zone building, so everyone has to make Athletic checks to dodge the debris or take 6d6 damage.
Tip #3: Think about your players. What can they do, what can't they do? If they have a grapple gun, give them verticality to play with like elevated platforms, scaffoldings, rooftops etc. If your player has a high athletics, give them a body of water to swim through. You get the idea. Likewise, furniture can be manipulated. Turning over that table gives you 10 HP now, cutting that bridge will let the enemies plummet into the canal.
Tip #4: This continues to riff off tip #3, but don't be afraid to change the map/scene of the encounter. If you find things are getting a bit too stale, have something happen. In the middle of this fight between edgerunners, a NCPD beat cop strolls around the corner at the wrong time. Or in the middle of this heist, a Bozo-filled ice cream truck comes to a stop outside. Even simpler, we can have an enemy set fire to the room which can spread leaving the PCs and enemies with a choice: leave or die by burning and asphyxiation rules (CPR:180).

Using Roles for Enemies

Solos: are the easiest way to increase lethality and difficulty in a combat. Using Combat Awareness can make a room full of enemy Solos into a small army that can drop players like flies.
Rockerboys: The focus of a Rockerboy enemy is two-fold. The first is the distractor. I ran a session where the players needed to protect someone in the building across the street. An enemy Rockerboy summoned a moshpit crowd outside the entrance so the players had to make Athletics checks to push through the crowd to get to the lobby. If they confront the rocker, rather than fight, the rocker will have their fans fight the Players instead, with every turn using their Role Ability to call in more minions to hold the players back.
Netrunners: can have more uses than just being obstacles in Net Architectures. Hostile Netrunners can occupy emplacements or use a nearby access point to start manipulating the terrain like turning on sprinklers or the lights to expose the Player's location. My favorite use is a Netrunner carrying a Net Architecture in their Carryall and dispersing a Drone Swarm that was hidden in the trunk of the Nomad's car.
Techs: are the random variable of a combat. They have the ability to manipulate the environment in all kinds of cheeky ways. They can carry a net architecture in their carryall, use drones from their agent, counter PC electronics. They can also manipulate the environment during the combat. I like to use Techs with EMP grenades make a Cybertech check on the players, then chuck the grenade.
Medtechs: can be more than the healers of the combat. They can administer all kinds of drugs to allies and enemies included. A medtech with high brawling can easily race up to a player and hit them with Blue Glass, which could take a PC out of the combat through a drug-induced high. On the otherside, a Medtech can provide allies Speedheal or Black Lace (which is fun when the person goes cyberpsycho in the middle of combat).
Medias: like Rockerboys aren't mean to tank combat. Medias can easily be recording the whole thing and creating a lot of bad rep for the players. Medias can also use their Role Rank Ability to find out information about the Players.
Execs: are easily bosses of a combat. These are Lieutenants with 1-3 mooks accompanying them. If the boss goes down, it's likely their minions will run away.
Lawmen: are my favorite random factor. If the players get caught, outnumber the enemy, or things have simply turned for the worst - the lawman NPC calls in some backup. These aren't always cops or Corps, but can be Boostergangers simply calling in their friends up the street.
Fixers: can be the bosses of an enemy group but sometimes can try to end the combat before it begins. They could try to bribe the players or negotiate a deal. Take out a "fixer" and their goons will either scatter or give up.
Nomads: are simple. These are the drivers, pilots, etc. Not much more I can go into about this.

Narrative Weight

Combat can tell a story in itself. Players should carry the weight of their combat wherever they go, whether it's positive rep or not. Consequences loom around every corner for your Players and the GM needs to keep track of this. Waste some Militech soldiers? Well, Militech is going to have guys out on the street looking for you.

What You Wear, What You Carry

This is important. Weapons like a Medium Pistol seems like it just shouldn't exist because the 2d6 barely scratches SP11 and above because not every target has SP11 and above. Take into account your armor, if you’re wearing LAJ, NPCs will notice. If you want a proper undetectable disguise, clothing offers 4 SP unless you get it kevlar-lined at 7 SP. Is your character really always wearing visible head armor? Even to that dinner? The same applies to your enemies. Your standard lobby guard isn't wearing a Flak helmet, probably just a simple 0 SP hat. Having a Linear Frame or visible cyber will draw attention. You have to think about all these things because when combat starts, it becomes interesting. It's not a sponge-bath of chipping away at high SP and HP and combat dragging for hours. Not everyone is loaded with x50 assault rifles in their pockets. Realistically, when they went to the Bodega they probably just had their pistol.


I wanted to end this essay here. I could go on more about this but we've already covered so much and it's not nearly enough! I definitely wanted to get into the different uses for weapons (yes, medium pistols aren't USELESS) and whatnot. That's all the energy I've got and will expand on the later half of this in a new post. Thank you for reading this section of the guide. As I said, this only scratches the surface because the actual full-length section not in this post is more pages than I care to admit. This is also just my take on Cyberpunk RED based on context from the books and interviews. I want to flip this around to you, how do you make combat interesting and nail-biting? No wrong answers, have at it! What kind of combat advice would you like to see in the next part? Tactics? Armor and ranged DVs?
To find part one follow the links:
Part 2:
submitted by dannyb2525 to cyberpunkred [link] [comments]

An evaluation of the "survival BR" genre, and what a AAA title could bring to the table.

This is an extended version of a comment I wrote yesterday and turns out, I have a lot to say on this matter.
First, the term survival BR: I made it up, I admit. But I don't really think there's a genre definition for the type of game I'm talking about yet. There are 3 (successful) games I know of that fit this description: Escape from Tarkov, The Cycle: Frontier, and Hunt: Showdown. (There are others that have come and gone in the interim, and The Cycle is too new to really be called successful yet, but it is one I am most familiar with, and will be using it as an example.) These are, in my opinion, defined by a few specific traits:
However, I believe there exist 5 traits that each of these 3 games have in common, and I think if a triple-A title managed to incorporate these traits into a standalone title (instead of a cash-grab extra mode ala Deadzone in Division, Extraction in BF2042), it could be the catalyst this genre needs to propel it into the next "trendy" game genre (started first in my experience by Minecraft exploding building games, then DayZ exploding the open-world survival genre, and most recently PUBG and/or H1Z1 exploding BRs).

Heavily-modifiable player loadouts:

What I think draws a lot of people to games like this, but Tarkov especially, is the player choice this genre allows for. Because the default you bring into a match is "nothing," anything you DO bring in is entirely by choice. Basically, taking the innovative "create a class" from COD4 and upping the freedom to 11. Want to be a stealthy CQC master, or a quick and dirty long-range sniper, or an absolute juggernaut with a dozen throwables to lob at your enemy before you charge them? All of that is possible, and all of it is viable, if the player makes the right choices about the items they bring into each match.
For instance, in Tarkov you must balance armor class (protection level) with the penalties associated (movement and turning speeds, ergonomics which affects weapon stability and ADS speed). Ammunition is also a choice, and what you choose affects how you play (where you aim, what distance you can engage at). Heck, even choosing what clothing you are wearing might affect your visibility - including backpacks, the bigger ones giving you a larger silhouette making you easier to spot.
I think a AAA title may want to take its cues from the other two games I mentioned, though. Hunt: Showdown might strip this choice a little TOO much in my opinion, but I admit it is a good balance especially for more casual players. It just feels too binary for more experienced players, I find, as the differences between weapons in the same "class" (long, mid, short range) are maybe a touch too subtle (partially a limitation of its setting, to be sure). Along with little customization of defensive capabilities, and a fairly simple and straightforward health system, it gets the job done but might is lacking a bit of flair in that department.
The Cycle, on the other hand, does a bit better at this, offering armors and helmets with varying classes, but simplifying it much moreso than Tarkov. There is not as much choice here, though, as there is little penalty to always using "the best" items beyond the risk of losing them and the cost of replacing them. But conceptually, they did an OK job at streamlining Tarkov's ... convoluted loadout choices in a way that is easier to understand, especially at first glance.
Ideally, a AAA title's loadout system would: allow for player freedom, give options that offer solid pros and cons, noticeably change the player experience from match to match, attempt to avoid unlockable items that render other items obsolete, while keeping ease of use as high as possible. One of the biggest complaints of long-time Tarkov players is the time it takes to re-gear even when you know exactly what you want to bring in, so solving that problem would be a huge boon. I just think there's a better way than simply reducing the number of items (and the different types of items) you can bring like Hunt and The Cycle do.


This is something that is notoriously hard to create, and even harder to really quantify or explain why it exists in a game. In my opinion, immersion just requires something that draws the player into the world. Tarkov's map do this incredibly well. The world feels very lived-in and realistic in a way most modern FPS's only wish their maps could achieve. This leads to intense firefights because no area "feels" like an arena, so you're always on guard for shit to go sideways.
Hunt's maps are pretty good, don't get me wrong. But their immersion comes from the sound design. Monsters are constantly making noise, but their sounds change when players are detected. Weapons are audible across the entire map. Every action a player takes has an audio cue associated with it, and you have to take into account the volume and range of that audio cue when deciding whether to take an action, or which route to take through a camp, etc. These sounds all blend together to create a fairly unique soundscape from match to match. The world feels sort of living, and you feel as if you are interacting with it.
The Cycle is...OK at this. It tries its best. I do like how there is a visual and audio cue when players are entering and leaving a match (and the fact more players can be added to a match in progress). It does add to a sense of an "ongoing conflict" but the world itself does feel a bit bland and sort of "glued together," if that makes sense.
Anyway, a AAA game is where I think immersion has the chance to truly shine. If nothing else, AAA games have been quite good at creating immersive, cohesive worlds. If I had to pick one thing from this genre I hope AAA games keep, it's the feeling as though the map is "alive." Hopefully combining Hunt's soundscape with Tarkov's incredible map design and adding a bit of its own flair, lore, and world-building in between matches, like Tarkov has attempted to do with YT videos, Twitter posts, and in-game "events."

Balancing the "death penalty"

Obviously like I said, these games each have the trait of "lose everything on death." How each game balances that, however, is different. I think one big challenge a AAA game will have is how to do balance it in a way that keeps casual players happy, while still sustaining the intensity each match holds. Players need that threat of loss to keep things exciting.
Tarkov is obviously the most hardcore in this, and could stand to drastically improve its system. I won't go into all the ways here but suffice to say, the current system is VERY punishing and turns off casual players quite frequently. Among many reasons, though, is that the "secure" storage size is dependent on how much you spent on the game, which is a big no-no. Allow players to upgrade it through gameplay, sure, but make sure ALL players start on the same level. Cycle does 10 slots. I think even that tends to be too small. 20 might be good, especially if, like Tarkov, certain items are restricted from being placed into this storage, even if only mid-match.
Other ideas:
In essence, this is the element that is the make or break when a casual player is deciding whether a game is worth their time. Tarkov doesn't respect your time, and so it remains a niche title. But I don't think this genre necessarily has to be niche for the same reason. I believe a balance can be struck, and a AAA title could help destigmatize the genre by solving this problem.

Variable PvE encounters:

This is something I only noticed recently but it does stand for all 3 titles I've been talking about.
Tarkov has Scavs, Raiders, Bosses, and most recently Rogues. These present variability in the PvE encounters. Not only is their equipment different (better), but their behavior is noticeably different as well. Bosses hide behind their guards, who are, like raiders, more aggressive than regular Scavs. Rogues are like Raiders that roam the map in a squad and are always on the map, and are even more of a threat. Hunt obviously has bosses (the entities you are indeed Hunting), but also things like the Hive ladies, water devils, Armored beasts, Hellhounds, and the Leechboi (forget his name lol). The Cycle has weaker hound enemies, larger threats like toxic ranged flyers, and massive "bear-like" enemies that take lots of firepower to take down.
In all instances, the variability in PvE enemies is used to create obstacles for a player that can be tackled in multiple ways. Sneak around, which takes time, or go loud and reveal your position? Or, potentially wait for another team to attempt to take down a high-value target, and third-party them for easy loot. A successful title will DEFINITELY require some level of PvE, as it adds to all three previous aspects I mentioned: immersion? check. Threat of loss? check. Must be taken into consideration when deciding loadout? a-check-a-roo.
A triple-A title could easily take this up a level. Take Tarkov's enemy archetypes and polish their insanely janky AI, for instance. Or maybe default all AI entities to non-combative, until they are fired upon, but make them more dangerous as a result. I'm drawing a blank but only because I think the current games have iterated quite well and any differences will likely come from the game's chosen setting (which I'll get to at the end).

Longevity, or Long-Term Goals

This, in my opinion, is where all 3 titles I've mentioned really fall down. They each have some kind of long-term goal, but for one reason or another, they tend to leave players either wanting more, or overwhelmed, or frustrated, etc.
Tarkov has lots of tasks but a LOT of them are very time-consuming, tedious, and really don't respect the player's time. I'll admit Kappa is a fun reward but not worth it for all except the top 0.01% of player in terms of time spent on the game. Hunt's prestige system is very uninspired with very little in the way of rewards. I haven't spent much time with The Cycle but I fear it takes a lot of bad notes from Tarkov. Lots of fetch quests, tedious requirements, and a slow grind to unlock better items.
So, a AAA title would really need a good progression system, with goals that are easy to work towards incrementally, where the rewards are impactful to players and give them more fun toys to play around with.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk. I wanted to talk about the way these things are setting-independent but man this is already fucking long so I'm ending it here. Anything you think I missed, or disagree with, I want to discuss! And if you don't agree that these traits are setting-independent, let me know and I'll explain why I think it can apply to any setting - medieval, sci-fi, heck even something like a Mech/Spaceship/Other armored vehicle-based game.
submitted by Jurez1313 to truegaming [link] [comments]

Gorilla arms question

I think this is pretty straightforward to ask. I'm not street cred 20, yet so I can't test this, but do I need to invest any points into the brawler tree if I'm using punching with gorilla arms as a backup weapon to an annihilation shotgun build?
The idea is to go roughly something like: 18 body, 18 reflexes, 18 tech, 1X cool, 3 intel. respectively leveling up in a 2(body)-1(ref)-2(tech)-1(cool)-0(intel) pattern.
I generally like to give my builds options for combat so that it doesn't become too binary and stale. Gorilla arms would be used if I get cornered or get stuck trying to reload at a bad time. I want to live out that sort of vanguard playstyle from ME2/3.
However, I realize that early on not needing to put any points into brawler and just save up for the gorilla arms makes the build scale smoother. And later in the game opens the options for adding in another weapon type i.e. a burya/sniper rifle.
Can anyone who has messed with gorilla arms / brawler perks give me some insight? Do they need any perk points to shine? If so which ones?
submitted by Karnstruct to LowSodiumCyberpunk [link] [comments]

Put shotgun resistance on Flak armor

This armor is designed to stop low velocity shrapnels so it could make sense.

I think shotguns are wierd because they need to be strictly binary but also inconsistent at the same time.
Like sniper-rifles they need a binary approach: they have to either be the very best or the very worst option. If you hit = big reward (0hk) but if you miss = big risk (slow refire-rate).
But also - they need to be somewhat inconsistent. There must be some sort of artifical "luck" involved because mechanically they are just too easy to use.
So if you introduce resistances to this damage-type spread among the playerbase you get that "luck" element that its currently lacking. Some people you just melt, but some people you need that 1 extra shot. And since you never really know before, so you are forced to engage with more aggression or more hesitation (either are fine).
My biggest gripe with shotguns atm is how "calculated" and passive they allow you to play. You alway KNOW the outcome with certain before you pull the trigger so you can relax too much.
Flak would probably become more popular but why not? After NW was nerfed there is more competition for suit-slots and this could further improve that.
submitted by HKSeven to Planetside [link] [comments]

The Gambit problem - Lethality is the most effective option, always.


Heavy weapons/ammo aren’t the underlying cause of Gambit’s problems, but a symptom. The parallels between Gambit’s perceived heavy problem and Crucibles special weapon problem (which Bungie are attempting to address) help demonstrate this.
The reason heavy is perceived as problematic is because they’re typically designed to have high lethality and low chance for user error. Traits which make them the best choice for invading.
When the criteria for success is binary, as it is during a Gambit invasion (did the invader directly cause this elimination; yes or no?), the tools with the highest degree of lethality and lowest chance of user error will always be the optimal choice. Combine that with rewards so disproportionate to the effort required to attain them, you end up with an interaction players find so oppressive and unenjoyable they simply choose to avoid the game mode entirely.
Without a solution that separates lethality and effectiveness, invasions will continue to require little to know forethought and the power vacuum created by negative adjustments to a tools lethality will only cause whatever tool fills it to be seen as problematic.
Having the “reward” for an elimination be determined by the type of tool which caused it is a way to separate lethality and effectiveness. This adds depth to invading whilst maintaining Gambit’s fundamental identity.
Lethality - the capacity to cause death or serious harm or damage
Effectiveness - the degree to which something is successful in producing a desired result
These two words clearly mean different things. However, in regards to Gambit; lethality is effectiveness.
I think this is the actual reason Gambit is in this state. A state so bad, it warrants additional development/financial resources to try and fix, as evidenced by the introduction of Gambit Labs.
So, lets look at heavy.

When are Heavy Weapons seen as problematic

Let’s breakdown a typical, non-premade Gambit match into its basic phases to help illustrate;
Obviously an invader can be present during both other phases. However, they usually shift the match's focus to them, so I’ve classed it as its own “phase”.
Of those 3 phases, when is lethality the most problematic? From personal experience and voiced community sentiment, during an Invader phase.
Whilst the other two phases may have their issues; I don’t personally feel nor see much evidence to suggest that player lethality is currently problematic specifically to them (I do think Heavy needs to be reduced to a level that requires thought behind it's use). However, if this was the case and these phases aren’t aligning with design goals, Bungie can make a plethora of adjustments such as; mob density or Primeval health values etc. They actually have a lot of control over these two phases.

Why are Heavy Weapons seen as problematic

Currently, they are the most effective option for invading.
In order to understand why something is effective during invasions, identifying an invader's desired result is required. Luckily, this is incredibly obvious; to hinder the opposing team by denying mote deposits or healing the Primeval through the elimination of other players.
To achieve this, an invader is typically going to opt for a tool with high lethality and low margin for error. Traits not exclusive to, but most commonly exhibited by heavy weapons.
However, this is by design. When you fire off a heavy weapon, you want devastation. The intent is nearly always to remove whatever is in front of it from existence, as quickly as possible.

Why this isn’t just about Heavy Ammo/Weapons

It’s true that since Gambit was released to the live game, there has been a heavy weapon causing problems. Sleeper Simulant, Truth, Xenophage, Eyes of Tomorrow and Gjallarhorn to name some of the more notorious ones.
I’ve excluded bugged weapons intentionally.
Even knowing this, I don’t think the communities most common suggestions revolving around the “heavy ammo economy” would ultimately help either;
- Change how behaves in Gambit
In a recent Firing Range podcast, Kevin Yanes (D2 Sandbox Lead, referred to as Tocom) mentioned in the chat when addressing changes to Hunter Invisibility in PvP that Bungie doesn’t want game behaviour to be functionally different across game modes [DCP Firing Range Ep. 44 - The Witch Queen PVP Meta Analysis] @ 18:44 if time stamp doesn't work.
This isn’t the first time a Bungie dev has said this, meaning completely removing tracking for rockets in Gambit doesn’t seem like something they’d be willing to do.
Even if Bungie were to do this, we’ve seen time and time again; when a weapon is negatively adjusted because it’s viewed as problematic, players just change to whatever weapon emerges as top banana.
- Disable Heavy Weapons
The nuclear option. Would this actually make meaningful change? If only we had a PvP environment where heavy ammo was more scarce so we might highlight any similari.. Oh hi Crucible, didn’t see you there.
If we set aside the general existence of Hunters, Lorely SplendoEmpowering Rift + a weapon that now one-shots, there are problems with the lethality and uptime of special weapons, evidenced by the recent changes to special ammo. This is incredibly similar to the perceived Gambit heavy ammo problem and the reduction in ammo availablity doesn't seem to have really fixed the issue.
It’s therefore not unreasonable to conclude that the vacuum left by the removal of heavy weapons from Gambit would simply be filled by the next most lethal thing, special weapons.


Being remotely successful during an invasion requires little to no forethought, it’s brain dead.
When you combine constant real time wall hacks with high lethality tools (some of which don’t even require line of sight or direct hits to eliminate), against players who more than likely aren’t communicating, in a situation where the only metric for success is binary and the reward is so disproportionate to the level of execution required, you end up with something so oppressive, so cancerous, it infects a thing in its entirety and drives people away. You end up with Gambit.
This is why I feel a distinction between lethality and effectiveness is needed.

How do we separate lethality from effectiveness

Make the method of elimination affect the reward.
A similar concept already exists in the Crucible, where the amount of super energy granted for a kill is determined by the type of ammo a weapon uses.
Whilst the successfulness of it's implimention in the Crucible is up for debate, Gambit is fortunate to have way more moving parts for this sort of concept to be applied, giving it a greater potential impact.

The Concept

\Numbers are for concept illustration*
- Dropped motes can be recovered by a team mate or yourself after revive, lost motes are gone forever.
- Invasion portal is opened by your team depositing motes.
- Constant real time wall hack is removed (no name tags). When the invader first spawns they’re given zone wide true sight (think Hunter’s true sight, the ghostly outline stuff) for a brief period of time.
Indicating how many motes each player has during this initial zone wide true sight would add further potential depth to both the invader and defending players, but I'm unsure how it would play in practice.
- After that initial true sight the invader now emits a pulse, undetectable to the enemy team at a “balanced” frequency. When this pulse comes into contact with players, a static true sight ghostly outline is left behind for a short period of time to assist the invader in ascertaining player location and potential direction of travel.
Perhaps the frequency could increase the longer the invader is present or after each kill, giving impetus to both the invader and defending players.
- Heavy ammo would need to be reduced to a level that requires thought behind its use, save for invadeinvading or something like Primeval damage, but would still need to be guaranteed.
- HVTs still drop motes
- Can’t queue invasions, if the 1st invasion isn’t used by the time enough motes are deposited for the 2nd, that 1st one is gone.
- The method by which the invader eliminates opposing team members affects the “reward”;

Elimination Type Motes Dropped Motes Lost Primeval Heal
Primary 20% 80% 10%
Special 50% 50% 7%
Heavy 80% 20% 4%
Super ?% ?% ?%
Ability ?% ?% ?%
Plebbery/Suicide 0% 100% 0%
\Again, these number are purely for concept illustration*
My upfront concern is that this isn’t specific enough. Maybe it needs to be done by weapon type rather than ammo type to prevent an invader always running a scout rifle etc. However, that may make it too complex, there are players who still struggle with concepts such as “motes go in bank” or “you can deposit less than 15”.
I’m not sure how to value supers, hence ?%. Whilst incredibly lethal, they’re typically more sparse than heavy. Also, kills whilst under the effect of Well or Ward may need special consideration. Whilst their buffs do indeed add lethality, it's not on the level of other supers.
This would still allow someone to invade with a high lethality weapon and delete people across the map with little risk to yourself if you want. However, your level of effectiveness now hinders on you eliminating everyone.
It adds depth to invading. You’d have to assess the situation and plan/react accordingly.
If you see someone separated from the group, maybe it’s worthwhile taking them out with a special or a primary so you can guarantee a larger portion of those motes can’t be recovered. Or if both team’s Primevals are at a similar HP levels and those slayer stacks are getting up there, going in with a heavy to eliminate opposing team members and reduce their damage output temporarily might be more beneficial than a bigger heal which will probably be negated by the slayer stacks.
It also creates additional avenues of balancing for Bungie.
- Grant a bonus for a complete team wipe. The bonus granted is dictated by the most lethal tool used to kill. You take everyone out during the Primeval phase with just a primary, you heal an additional ?%. Do the same during the mote gathering phase, you drain an amount of motes from their bank into your own. However, if you get one of those kills with a heavy, the bonus is much smaller.
This creates the opportunity for more Drifter voice lines, always a plus
- Remove the immunity shield from the Primeval phase. Instead, the envoys grant a damage reduction to the boss akin to Unstoppable Champions when they aren’t staggered, preventing instant boss melts. Envoys spawn after a certain amount of time or when the Primeval’s health hits certain gates. However, these gates only work once. For example; your team has dropped the Primeval past the first gate at 75% and dealt with the envoys. Big PP invader comes on through and takes out enough of your team to push the health back to 90%, the envoys will NOT respawn when you drop the HP back past 75%. Primeval Slayer stacks are still a thing and function how they do now.
Whilst insta-melting is fun, if a key part of the game mode can be circumvented without that being part of the design intention, why is it even there? Opting for damage resistance over immunity shields offers players more autonomy during the Primeval phase. Your Primeval is low, the invader has JUST arrived, they’ll need a few seconds before they can engage you, do you have sufficient fire power in the tank to brute force the Primeval through its damage resistance or are you going to need to deal with said invader?

Closing thoughts

Gambit has seen so many revisions in its lifetime, there will be players who thought Gambit Prime was the best version and others who think it was the worst, it is impossible to please everyone. However, there are lessons to be learnt from each iteration. For example; Gambit Prime brought us single round matches.
I’m under no illusion that my concept is some silver bullet, it was never my intention to present it like that. It’s simply a version of Gambit that addresses the core issues I have with the game mode.
With Gambit Labs being a thing, it felt like now was perhaps the best time for player feedback.
Having experienced “Invader Swap” for a week now, I can safely say it’s made no change to my average game. I believe this to be due to the same reason raids aren’t matchmade; the level of communication required to execute the only real strategy (39/99) can't be guaranteed outside of pre-made teams.
I do, however, believe that until something is done to separate lethality from effectiveness, Gambit is doomed to repeat the cycle it’s currently in. Any changes that don’t address this problem are wasted resources, because regardless of what else you might change, when the invader goes through that portal and their effectiveness is measured by “did they eliminate?” with no regard for how, it’ll be with the most lethal, easiest to use weapon and players on the receiving end will eventually become so frustrated they’ll opt to not engage with the activity.
Gambit is fundamentally a cool and rather unique game mode. It’s a bit like Mario Kart, a race in which you can REALLY ruin somebody's day. Just right now, everyone has unlimited blue shells and the race takes an eternity. It’d be a shame for it to be changed beyond recognition or lost entirely.
By adjusting the “reward” based on elimination method, you allow Gambit to keep its original identity. Which, according to the people who got to experience Gambit before it went to the live game, was a lot of fun when people were using snipers and pulse rifles during invades.
That's just my take on it anyway.

edit: typo
submitted by TheLaggyNinja to DestinyTheGame [link] [comments]

Heart of Darkness Patch Notes and Megathread

Official Patch NotesLivestreamOverview

New Champion: Lillith, The Heartless

What is the value of eternal life? At what point does the cost become too great?
Lillith, through ill-fortune and fear, has found herself on the path of this defiled discovery. Once a staunch defender of the Magistrate, Lillith was a confidant and friend of Lian; even becoming a border-lord in the far-off lands over which Lian holds dominion. Yet, this proud life would not last forever.
Gravely wounded in a border incursion by Resistance fighters, Lillith painstakingly crawled away from the battlefield, cursing those who brought her to death’s door. What Lillith didn’t know – what she couldn’t have imagined, was that the Abyss would reach out to her and offer her a gift…an offer that was too powerful to refuse.
Now, Lilith reigns from her dark corners of the Realm. Aided by her unnaturally long life and keen mind, Lillith dashes from shadow to shadow with her deadly Heart of Crimson: a sinister weapon that swells with unnatural power whenever it tastes the blood of her enemies. Lillith works towards a Realm blessed by the bounteous gifts once bestowed on her… ones that nobody will be allowed to deny.
Name Skill Type Description Cooldown
[Weapon] Heart of Crimson Direct Damage Lillith shoots a charged bolt of blood from her mysterious Cube. Has a max of 4 ammo and deals 625 per shot. -
[Alt. Fire] Blood Hex Healing / Direct Damage / Buff Lillith can choose to hex an enemy or an ally – dealing damage to enemies over time, while healing herself, or healing allies over time while healing herself. -
[Ability 1] Death Wings Area Damage / Mobility Lillith leaps into the air and gains air control. Lilith can reactivate her Flight to slam directly into the ground, dealing damage in a small radius. -
[Ability 2] Swarm Buff / Direct Damage / Healing Lilith channels a swarm of bats to heal her allies or damage her enemies. Lasts for 3.75s. Has 3 channeled states that deal increasing healing/damage. -
[Ultimate] Blood Moon Buff Lillith channels the Blood Moon. Allies receive 35% pure life rip. Lilith moves faster, jumps higher, and constantly regens health during this ult. Lasts for 8s. -
Talents & Cards
Name Ability Description Cooldown
[Default] Cursed Accord Armour / Weapon Decrease Damage output across all of her damaging abilities/inhand by 25% while decreasing her blood cost on all abilities by 35% and increasing her healing output by 15% to allies and herself. -
[Level 2] Maelstrom of Carnage Swarm Lillith casts the cloud on herself and it moves with her. Ability cost is decreased by 25% while the radius is increased by 30%. -
[Level 8] Murderous Intent Primary Fire Projectiles pierce enemies but are smaller. -
Blood Sense Blood Hex Hitting an enemy with Blood Hex will Reveal them to your team for {0.5/0.5}s. -
Charmed Blood Hex Increase your ally’s Movement Speed by {4/4}% while they are marked by Blood Hex. -
Virulent Blood Hex Reduce the Blood cost of Death Wings by {4/4}% while an enemy is marked by Blood Hex. -
Waning Moon Blood Hex Reduce the Blood cost of Swarm by {5/5}% while an ally is marked by Blood Hex. -
Sanguine Pact Death Wings Reduce the Cooldown of Blood Hex by {0.5/0.5}s after activating Death Wings. -
Sheer Ascent Death Wings Increase vertical movement of Death Wings by {5/5}%. -
Unholy Flight Death Wings Reduce your damage taken by {10/5}% for 1.5s after activating Death Wings. -
Wings of Terror Death Wings Increase the lateral movement of Death Wings by {6/6}%. -
Enriched Blood Swarm Increase the damage and Healing of Swarm by {4/4}%, but reduce its duration by {0.35/0.35}s. -
Convenient Leech Swarm Reduce the effect of Crowd Control for allies within Swarm by {5/5}%. -
Overflowing Delights Swarm Increase the Radius of Swarm by {2/2}%, but increase its cost by {3/3}%. -
Symbiotic Relationship Swarm Increase the Healing allies receive from Swarm by {4/4}%, but increase its cost by {4/4}%. -
Blood Canon Armour / Weapons Increase extra Blood Health by {250/250} while decreasing base Health by {125/125}. -
Gloomy Nook Armour / Weapons Gain a {150/150} Shield for 1.75s after falling to or below 75% Health. 35s
Sharpened Slaughter Armour / Weapons Set Ammo to 2 while increasing Projectile Speed by {25/10}%. -
Tainted Form Armour / Weapons Gain {1.5/1.5}% extra Health when hitting a marked enemy. -


MVP Poses

Lost Future Event Pass

Save time itself from an even darker future in our latest Event Pass – Lost Futures! Instantly unlock the Corrupted Atlas skin for purchasing, and unlock a total of 24 levels of rewards as you play!
Players can also purchase a Buy All option to get all content in the Lost Future Event Pass instantly!


Instant Unlock
Other Event Pass Exclusive Unlocks
Unlocks @ Reward Type Reward
Level 7 Skin Corrupted Io
Level 3 Static Spray Lost Future
Level 5 Loading Frame The Maw Hungers
Level 6 Static Avatar Dark Embrace Io
Level 8 Animated Spray Swallowed Whole
Level 12 Animated Avatar Eyes of the Beholder
Level 13 3D Spray Terrible Fate
Level 14 Animated Spray No Escape
Level 17 Static Avatar Dark Embrace Pip
Level 21 Skin Vile Atlas
Level 23 3D Spray Shattered Moon
Level 24 Skin Frozen Moon Io

Trials of the Realm

New Trials and rewards await you with the release of the Heart of Darkness update! Complete these challenges each week to unlock a variety of cosmetics, currency, and XP rewards. Unlocks
  • 150 Crystals
  • 100,000 Gold
  • Bounty Coins
  • Event Pass Team Boosters
  • Skin Boosters
  • A new Title
  • Flair and Style Chests
  • Gold Chest
Menu Theme – AmaLee
Death Card – The Heartless
Announcer Pack – Lian
Static Avatar – Dark Embrace Bomb King
MVP – Time’s Up (Atlas)
Emote – Rock On! (Raum)

Limited Time Modes

The Lost Future patch will feature 3 unique and 5 previously popular modes that rotate throughout the patch cycle. Each week there will be a different limited time mode available, from midnight Friday until 8am on Monday, EST. Here’s are some quick previews of what to expect next:

Bloody Feast

  • Lillith vs. Lillith – Create bloody chaos in this Lillth v Lillith only mode. All damage is increased, Blood Moon recharge rate is increased, and Lillith’s Blood Ammo is never ending. Paint the town red in this chaotic Limited Timed Mode.

Choose Any Ability

  • Any Champion, any time. Choose any champion in this frenetic mode – all abilities have had their cooldowns reduced by 35% while Ultimate abilities have been disabled. Spam those abilities in this wild Limited Timed Mode.

Khan’s Despair

  • Khan vs. Lian – Lian has had enough of Khan’s protection, but his regal armor is stronger than she knows. Khan’s health has been increased and his ability cooldowns have been reduced as well. Lian deals more damage and has increased Ultimate charge rate in this explosive Limited Timed Mode.


Golden Moji
  • Unlocked by reaching Champion Level 50 with Moji
Golden Willo
  • Unlocked by reaching Champion Level 50 with Willo
Dragonette Betty
  • Available in the Arcane Powers Chest
  • Can be purchased directly
Dunestrider Kinessa
  • Available in the Diamond Trove Chest
  • Can be purchased directly


  • Arcane Powers Chest has been expanded to add Dragonette Betty
  • Diamond Trove Chest has been expanded to add the following:
    • Dunestrider Kinessa
    • Ice Walker Inara
    • Eternal Retribution Koga
    • Eternal Conflict Lian
    • Eternal Guardian Khan
    • Eternal Fervor Jenos
    • Dark Retribution Koga
    • Dark Conflict Lian
    • Dark Guardian Khan
    • Dark Fervor Jenos

General Updates

Dev Commentary

"We’ve got a new Ranked Split, a new Siege: Beyond schism, and some long overdue enemy Bots in this upcoming patch! In addition, we’ve added some additional content to the Arcane Powers Chest and the Diamond Trove, and have increased rewards available via Earn Free Rewards! We hope you enjoy them, and definitely let us know what you think of the new variant of Siege: Beyond!"

New Champions added to Practice Queues

  • The following Champions have been added to the list of Bots:
    • Koga
    • Dredge
    • Atlas
    • Io
    • Raum
    • Tiberius
    • Corvus
    • Vora
    • Octavia
    • Vatu
    • Saati
    • Azaan
    • Betty la Bomba

Increased “Free Rewards”

  • Starting in Lost Future, each video viewed will grant 100→150 Gold. The rotating rewards for every 5th view will change as well:
    • 5th : Event Pass Booster → 10 Crystals
    • 10th: 10 Bounty Coins → Flair & Style Chest
    • 15th: 10 Bounty Coins → 20 Bounty Coins
    • 20th: Unchanged
    • 25th: 10 Bounty Coins → 20 Bounty Coins
    • 30th: 10 Bounty Coins → 5 Crystals
    • 35th: Event Pass Booster → 20 bounty Coins
  • We’re also enabling a one-time quest to earn at least one Free Reward – so there’s never been a better time to try it out!

Siege Beyond

  • Welcome to the latest variant of Paladins: Siege Beyond! Similar to the previous schism, the upcoming one will be a new mode where the community can try to give feedback on new experimental mechanics in Paladins before they affect existing game modes. As per the previous one, these changes will not affect Siege: Core, Ranked, or any other game modes, only the new Siege: Beyond.
  • Where our first Schism in Paladins affected the Item Store, the second will be focused on the cart and how it is pushed! Barik has been working on a new Cart design, and it could well be a game changer! All the factions have adopted it, but like many new technologies, there /may/ still be some bugs to work out.

Schism 2 – Prototype Cart

  • In Siege: Beyond, the initial point is captured normally, and spawns a cart for the capturing team. That’s where things get interesting—the cart will now move forward of its own volition, gaining or losing speed based on how many allies and enemies are in range.
  • So how do the defenders stop the cart’s advance? By destroying it! The prototype is vulnerable to damage from weapons and skills, and after sustaining enough damage, will break down completely until repaired.
  • When a cart breaks down, the pushing team will need to repair it by controlling points (which the defenders can contest) to get the cart back up and running. Depending on how commandingly they do so, the new cart may offer additional advantages once it’s been repaired.
  • As per Siege: Core rules, advancing the cart to the enemy’s base will win the round and earn a point, and the first team to accumulate 5 points wins.

Ranked Split Updates

Ranked Split Reward
Commendation Reward
Map Rotation
Time to spice things up! For this ranked rotation, we will be swapping out Frozen Guard for Splitstone Quarry, and keep the new Warder’s Gate rework out to account for polish. This patch’s casual siege rotation has also been modified to accommodate this change. In other words, while all casual maps will remain playable, some map percentages have been lowered and increased in line with the current ranked rotation and community feedback.


Developer Commentary:
"In an effort to constantly explore avenues to improve not only in-game content, but the entire Paladins experience, these notes are in a slightly different format than previously, including the current descriptions of most of the cards/talents/abilities being changed. Please let us know your thoughts on this format."
"This update has a mixture of overperforming Champions being brought more in line with the rest of the roster, quality-of-life changes for Champions frustrating to play as or against, and buffs or slight reworks to underutilized cards and talents. Some of these changes are a bit more extensive than others, especially when introducing different mechanics or gameplay experiences, but we look forward to gathering all your feedback during the PTS cycle and finding the right spot for this update."
  • Base Health
    • Reduced 4500 ➡️ 4250
  • Ire (Passive)
    • Reduced max Damage Resistance at 100% from 15% ➡️ 12%
  • Conviction (Ability 2)
    • Reduced range 50 ➡️ 45
    • Reduced Stun duration
      • Non-talented
        • Against Sanctuary walls 1.7s ➡️ 1.5s
        • Against other surfaces 0.85s ➡️ 0.75s
      • Talented
        • Against Sanctuary Walls 2.55s ➡️ 2.35s
        • Against other surfaces 1.275 ➡️ 1.175
  • Reckoning (Altfire)
    • Reduced lift duration 0.3s ➡️ 0.25s
  • Deliverance (Ultimate)
    • Increased damage on landing 150 ➡️ 250
Developer Commentary;
"Azaan remains the Champion with the highest ban rate in ranked matches and a general sentiment of frustration playing against him. We hope to preserve the sense of agency Azaan players experience, while targeting his survivability at base and his utility to bring him into what we hope is a healthier spot to play against."
  • Barricade (Altfire)
    • Increased base Health 3750 ➡️ 4000
  • Tinkerin
    • Current: Modify your Blunderbuss to fire a single slug that deals 535 damage.
    • Increased damage 535 ➡️ 550
Betty la Bomba
  • Grenade Launcher (Inhand)
    • Added rate of fire to description
    • Added max Ammo to description
  • Explosive Personality (Ability 2)
    • Decreased damage per jump 300 ➡️ 235
  • Long Live the Queen (Ultimate)
    • Increased damage 1700 ➡️ 1900
    • Increased riding speed 70 ➡️ 80
    • Increased missile speed 70 ➡️ 80
    • Now locks you in place in the air during initial buildup
  • Gotta Bounce
    • Cooldown reduction 6s ➡️ 5s
  • Eureka Moment
    • Decreased amount of damage needed to generate Ammo {2500|-200} ➡️ {2000|-200}
  • Labor of Genius
    • Old: Increase the time before your Inhand Grenades explode by {10|10}%.
    • New: Hits with Grenade Launcher increase Reload Speed by 5% for {0.5|0.5}s, stacking up to 3 times. Additional hits refresh the duration.
Developer Commentary;
"We’ve heard the sentiment is that Betty la Bomba has a few aspects that are misaligned with the rest of her player experience. Namely, her Ultimate felt underwhelming, and her mobility can be frustrating to play against. Her Ultimate is receiving some quality of life buffs, including the ability to remain in the air where she uses it, whereas her mobility with Gotta Bounce is being brought down as well. Additionally, we’re tuning up some of her cards that didn’t quite perform as well as others."
  • Exterminate
    • Current: When Pyre Strike hits an enemy champion it stops moving until it ends and deals 75% more damage to enemies under it.
    • New: When Pyre Strike hits an enemy champion it stops moving until it ends and deals up to 100% more damage to enemies under it, increasing based on the number of hits they take.
  • Devout Dexterity
    • Current: Generate {1|1} Ammo after earning an Elimination.
    • New: Regenerate {1|1} Ammo every 0.5s for 1.5s after earning an Elimination
  • Light Forge
    • Current: Hitting Kindle Soul increases your Movement Speed by {8|8}% for 1s.
    • New: Hitting Kindle Soul increases you and your target’s Movement Speed by {scale=5|5}% for 1.5s.
Developer Commentary;
"Exterminate is a talent that can is very sensitive to balance, quickly shifting between too powerful to seemingly useless. This change is meant to reward players who ensure enemies are stuck in the beam of death, while preventing it from feeling like an overwhelmingly frustrating ability to play against. We also see a few underutilized cards changed to help them find a place in your loadouts."
  • Totemic Ward
    • New: Now also increases the radius of Healing Totem by 25%.
  • Binary Star
    • Increased rate of fire from 1 every 0.5s ➡️ 1 every 0.45s
    • New: Now reduces your maximum Ammo to 10.
  • Penumbra
    • Reduced Lifesteal percentage {7|7} ➡️ {5|5}
  • Lorentz Configuration
    • Current: Increase your maximum Ammo by {2|2}.
    • New: Increase your maximum Ammo by {10|10}%.
Developer Commentary;
"These Jenos changes are a different take on reducing the pain points of Binary Star without players feeling it has lost its value as a talent."
  • Bulwark (Altfire)
    • Increased base Health 4250 ➡️ 4400
  • Lian’s Shield
    • New: Now also increases the base recharge rate of your shield by 20% (for a total of 120% of non-talented base)
Developer Commentary;
"Khan has had a difficult time standing toe to toe with other Champions’ ability to prevent damage with Shielding. These changes should bring him a little more in line with his competition, especially when running the Lian’s Shield talent."
  • Eagle Eye
    • Current: Change Sniper Rifle to have increased Fire Rate, Charge Rate, and maneuverability while scoped, but reduce the damage per shot.
    • New: You can have two additional Oppressor Mines out at one time and you throw out two Mines per use of the ability instead of one.
Developer Commentary;
"We have heard from the majority of players who find the Eagle Eye’s rework has, overall, felt underwhelming. We will continue to seek out efficient ways of providing interesting or unique playstyles for Champions, and this rework places more of an emphasis on Kinessa’s capacity to toss out mines. We’ll keep an eye on this to make sure it’s not TOO Oppressive, though."
  • Mending Spirits (Altfire)
    • Now refunds some Cooldown if you miss
  • Pungent Gourd
    • Current: Heal for {90|90} after activating Gourd.
    • New: Increase your Allies’ and your Movement Speed by {5|5}% while in your Gourd and for 0.5s after leaving it.
Developer Commentary;
"Missing Mending Spirits never felt good. However, investing significantly into Eerie Presence means losing out on other opportunities in the loadout. This change aims to alleviate some of the frustration of missing your Mending Spirits while also opening up an opportunity for a more diverse loadout."
  • Reduced head hitbox size by approximately 15%
Developer Commentary;
“The time had finally come.” – Neco
  • Hand Cannon (Inhand)
    • Decreased damage per shot 550 ➡️ 530
  • Pips (Passive)
    • Reduced recharge rate 1 per 2.5s ➡️ 1 per 2.65s
  • Blast Back (Ability 2)
    • Increased range 45 ➡️ 55
Developer Commentary;
"Saati is currently overperforming. Blast Back had a range that wasn’t initially consistent with the intended range on release, so this is addressing that issue, but an overall decrease in capability to use her abilities and a nerf to her damage output should bring her more in line with the rest of the roster."
  • Rend Soul (Ability 1)
    • Increased Cooldown 6s ➡️ 7s
    • Increase damage 80 ➡️ 90
    • Increase healing received 8% ➡️ 12%
  • Convergence (Ultimate)
    • Can now reactivate this ability to detonate it in mid-air
  • Agony:
    • The current effect is now applied at base.
    • New: For each stack of Soul Orb detonated by Rend Soul, your next Restore Soul ignores 5% of Antihealing (excluding Willo’s Dead Zone) up to 25% (5 stacks) for up to 8s.
Developer Commentary;
""Seris is a Champion who embodies Support for a variety of players, including those newer to Paladins. We want Seris to have her own niche and be viable at all levels, but not oppressive in the hands of the most skilled or so weak that she never sees play beyond a certain skill level. This particular change is one we very much need feedback on during the PTS cycle to help gauge her viability in general and with regards anti-antihealing."
  • Stealth (Ability 2)
    • Increased Stealth resource consumption per second 10 ➡️ 12
  • Kunai (Inhand)
    • Increased effective range 75 ➡️ 90
    • Increased the minimum damage done at maximum range 50% ➡️ 65%
  • Reduced base Health 6000 ➡️ 5750
  • Devour (Ultimate)
    • This ability now has a minimum range of 50
    • This ability can no longer miss under normal circumstances
Developer Commentary;
""Another change that requires significant feedback from players is this change to Yagorath’s Ultimate. She is now required to be a minimum distance away from an enemy before she can use her Ultimate on them, but (under normal circumstances) if she sees the brackets indicating a valid target for her Ultimate and uses it, the ability will hit and the Ultimate will begin. We anticipate further numbers changes during PTS after this change."

Bug Fixes


  • Azaan
    • Fixed an issue where Azaan’s Ultimate, Deliverance, would allow him to teleport to locations outside of the playable map space on certain maps.
  • Drogoz
    • Fixed an issue where Drogoz’s Fusillade talent was providing increased damage on indirect Weapon Shot hits.
  • Kinessa
    • Fixed an issue where Kinessa’s HUD overlay for her Sniper Mode ability was slightly off-center.
  • Strix
    • Fixed an issue where Strix’s HUD overlay for his Scope ability was slightly off-center.
  • VII
    • Fixed an issue where VII’s Grappling Hook ability would not activate properly if there was an ally between VII and the wall to which they were attempting to grapple.
    • Updated several of VII’s cards to fix typos and make their text more consistent with other cards in the game.
  • Vora
    • Fixed an issue where Vora’s Tendril ability would not activate properly if there was an ally between Vora and the wall to which they were attempting to grab.


  • Fixed an issue where muting another player in game would not mute their voice chat. (This was fixed over the weekend in Live, so you don’t have to wait for the patch for this fix!)
  • Fixed an issue where small sections of the Spawn Room on Frozen Guard were not being treated as though they were within the Spawn Room.
  • Fixed an issue where the announcer would play their variant of “The match is about to begin” in Team Deathmatch after the match had already begun.
  • Fixed an issue where projectiles would fall through the cracks of the stairs near the dock on Brightmarsh.
  • Fixed an issue where the forcefield in front of Timber Mill’s upper Spawn Door would not disappear on Round Start.
  • Fixed an issue where Frozen Guard had an invisible wall alongside the payload push path that could not be fired through.
  • Fixed an issue where the “Equipped” text would not appear in certain circumstances on equippable items in the Match Lobby.
  • Fixed various UI issues with scrolling between different segments of the Event Pass track.
  • Fixed an issue where a skin’s preview voice lines would play when selecting non-skin items in the Event Pass track.
  • Fixed an issue where currency values would not fit in the Purchase button UI on the Crystal Purchase menu when using certain currencies.
  • Fixed an issue where Announcer Packs would play preview voice lines in other pages of the Accessories menu.
submitted by Thane_Mantis to Paladins [link] [comments]

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